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I have never done a track day, but would like to maybe do one this spring and see how it goes.  I would obviosly be in the beginner class following an instructor around, so keep that in mind.  Before I do though, I have a couple of questions and I hope some of you all can maybe give me some advice.  I have an 05 F4i that is, other than an Akrapovic carbon slip-on, stock and in mint condition.  According to Sportbiketracktime.com, I can get this bike acceptable to use on the track with minimal effort...problem is if I drop it, OEM fairings aren't cheap...I could buy replacement fairings and change them out before the track day, but that is a pain, and that doesn't keep my tank from getting dented and a whole bunch of other potential damage.  Another option is to rent one of their bikes for $500 plus a $1000 deposit that I lose if I drop it.  Problem here, I am on a new bike that I am not familiar with, and the extra expense renting a motorcycle. 

To clear things up, I am a decent rider and have never dropped or been down on a motorcycle...I don't plan to either, but I know many excellent riders who have gone down on a track, so I know that it is always a possiblity.  I guess my biggest question, how big of a possiblity is it.

To sum up my questions:

1.  I am an average rider riding in the beginner class at a track day following an instructor.  What are my chances of having an incident on the track that would damage my street bike? 

2.  For my first track day would you reccommend that I rent a bike, or do you think that I will be OK on my own bike?

3.  Any other advice or angles I am not looking at?  Maybe buy a cheap ninja 250 or 500 and use that as a track bike?

Thanks for your help!

I would tend to think that you should be fine for your first few track sessions on your bike, That said, I have no experience here either. My reasoning being though, is that for general saftey and legal reasons, they will probably keep your first few sessions low key and slowly work you up. I think if you ride with in your means and slowly work up your speed and skill you shoulnt have too many worries.  but again this is just me guessing! 

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CBR929-jardine race can, down 1, polished frame and swing arm,wheels polished, HELI bars, Sargent seat, Puig racing screen

on the track, u only go as fast as u want too especially in the beginner groups.  the instructors are there only to help u ride safer, not necessarily to help u go faster.  usually, faster is a byproduct of riding the track correctly.. ie better lines, correct braking, and smoother throttle input... but by this time u should feel comfortable at that speed. 

if u spend some time at trackdays, ull def notice that 90% of the crashes happen in the intermediate B group.  its in this group that riders are simply too fast for their own good.  they can go fast when the conditions are ideal, but one mistake such as braking too late or turning in wrong sends them down.  in the slower beginner group, those mistakes usually wont cause u to fall, simple because u arent going fast enough.  

its happend to me... im usually one of the faster guys in the intermediate group, but my last trackday i didnt like how the bike was handling.  instead of slowing and attempting to fix the problem, i pushed harder and ended up going down.  but like i said, this wont really apply to u since u have the option of going much slower.  at first track, my first 3 sessions in the beginner group seemed about the same pace as one would ride in twisty mountain roads.  u dont have to enter turn 1 at 100mph if u dont want too.

all that being said, ride your own bike.  u being used to the feel of it and such is invaluable when it comes to riding safely.   later on, if u feel this is going to become a habit, buy a used set of race fairings & tank and swap them out for each trackday, it really doesnt take that long. 

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Naked 93' F2...... RIP -- 04/12/07
04' 600RR Black - currently stuck between track and street usage
- Brembo Master, Sato's, & Ohlins out back

i've only been riding track since 02, and actually started on track about 5 months after i got my license and bike (both w/in like a week of each other). my first trackday was with california superbike school. i rented their bikes because i had no way of getting my bike to SoCal from bay area. that was an expense i was willing to pay.

now on the theme of expense.... i will deviate from what the guys above said...

if *you* are that *worried* about expense and about going down, DO NOT DO THE TRACKDAY.

why, my young padawan? because you already filled you're head with unnecessary worries that can cloud your judgement, not to mention have the angst and pain of expense and your beautiful bike going down in a worse case scenario.

you have to approach this as a go, no-go type thing. commit or do not commit. but if you commit, you have to commit fully and with the acceptance of a worse case scenario - that you can be spending a lot of dough fixing the bike up, or really worse, fixing *yourself* up.


now that i've gotten your attention (and the above is really something you need to think about seriously), trackdays are an addiction. no matter what the $$$, and sometimes, no matter what the pain you'll endure from mishaps. there is no other safer place to learn your bike and what's it's made for (yeah, yeah, it's a piddly F4i, but hey, this was a supersport contenter 6-8 years ago). and i know very few people that quit trackdays, for various reasons and sometimes, not financially related or family/wifey/gf related.

so... decide on your options if you go..

- do you want to buy extra fairings, rashed for example to use for the trackday? buy a used tank and use that instead?
- can you live riding your bike in rashed form? hell, i know i did. and rashers were my battle scars (not really proud of them, but you get the point, I hope).
- can you afford the addiction? after your first, you'll be longing for more and you'll be longing for performance parts (or even aesthetics).
- can you afford or live the price of crashing? it could be that you won't be riding for a while to get parts. it could be you won't be riding at all because you don't have a bike.

if you say no to the last one, save yourself the pain and angst. there are no such things as probabilities of you going down. even if you were able to control your pace and ride, others might not and they'll hit you. just ask abadfish here. and you can't sue them because you sign you ability to sue once you get on track. you take responsibility for yourself, regardless of who's fault it is.

p.s. yeah, it's a pain switching bodywork. i did that on my F4 (look at yellow pics below in signature vs silver one on right). you get used to it. only about a couple of hours in the weekend, including switching the wheels. get used/rashed race bodywork on ebay.

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"Leaders are like tea; put them in hot water to find out how strong they are." Anonymous

hubbard2_a:

....that for .... and legal reasons...

sorry, no legal reasons here... you sign a waiver accepting full responsibility for yourself and only yourself, no matter what the cause. you can claim on your insurance if it's a school based trackday, but you can't sue or your insurance can't go after another person if they hit you, or caused you to go down. you go at your own pace... you control your own ride.  instructor's won't force you to go fast, let alone slow down.

now, if this was one of those uber expensive schools, they might ask you slow down if you're not getting a particular technique they're teaching you ('tis your money if you don't listen, but they care cuz they don't want badmouthing later too that you didn't learn squat when instead, should've been following directions). superbike school does that if they see you starting to use the brake because it defeats the purpose of the drill. so to fix that, they'll verbally tell you later slow down or you sit. LOL

let's make sure everyone understands that. first and foremost thing, you waive your right to sue at the entrance of the racetrack.

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"Leaders are like tea; put them in hot water to find out how strong they are." Anonymous

stangmx135:

if u spend some time at trackdays, ull def notice that 90% of the crashes happen in the intermediate B group.  its in this group that riders are simply too fast for their own good.

happens a lot on A group too. for the B group, i'd say it's mostly about ego. they're afraid of being called "C" riders and force themselves falsely into thinking they *belong* in the B group. part of being fast is also being safe, and if you can only go fast when no one's around and you're a flailing $Q##%% when you're around people trying to outbrake them or not let them outbrake you, hence ego, need to practice on that in the C group still.

i'm not perfect myself, but i still sign-up on B groups even though my pace is A (at times) because of that brake, i.e. *safe* braking practice. if i can't pass them safely in B, i can't pass them safely on A.

then again, i get a flogging from my pit buddies that the main reason i'm slow is cuz i like the B group.

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"Leaders are like tea; put them in hot water to find out how strong they are." Anonymous

i forgot about your last question. that is always a preferred solution. buy another bike and dedicate it for trackdays. but seriously, you have to make another bike purchase worthwhile and have to really go enough trackdays to do so. but if you are worried about rashing your bike, this is probably not a good route for you financially because  you'll have to commit to trackdays, else you have a nice toy sitting in garage.

250 ninja is ok, but i'll tell you, you'll get frustrated very soon cuz all them big bad ass 600/650/750/848/996/998/999/1098/1000/1200 cc bikes passing you like you're sitting still. if you really want a dedicated trackbike, look for like an f4 or f4i (if you wanna stick to honda). they should be cheap these days. that's capable, but don't be expecting to burn anyone on the straight.

hope you see the dilemma of riding trackdays. it all leads to a lot of $$$. just ask me.. i paid over 3k in race fees alone last year. and that's not even all the weekend races, and not all the races classes i wanted to in each weekend.

even if i don't race in the near future, i'll still be doing trackdays. they are fun... nice get together with friends, just a nice/fun day.

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"Leaders are like tea; put them in hot water to find out how strong they are." Anonymous

oh man, wat an essay uve got goin there high_revs.... i hope none of this info is scary for DJandTara and his/her new-ness.  i also cant believe u enjoy the Bgroup.  well come to think of it, my only day at Thill in B was 100x better than down here at Streets.  but ya, all the a$$-hatery in B is ridiculous and i esp hate being able to think "god damnit this guy is going to take someone out" and have it happen 5min after i pass him.   oh, and id much rather pass someone on the brakes in A because i kno they wont fubar their line and wreck because of it... in B, its a diff story even if its a clean 8ft pass. 

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Naked 93' F2...... RIP -- 04/12/07
04' 600RR Black - currently stuck between track and street usage
- Brembo Master, Sato's, & Ohlins out back

DJ,

why are you so concerned about crashing on the track?  It is a valid concern but crashing on the track is no more riskier than on the street (though the reasons you crash may be different).  Some will even argue that your chances of crashing on the street are greater than the track because of the higher degree of unpredictability.  Allow me to reword your post:

DJandTara:

I have never done a street day, but would like to maybe do one this spring and see how it goes.  I would obviosly be in the beginner class following an instructor around, so keep that in mind.  Before I do though, I have a couple of questions and I hope some of you all can maybe give me some advice.  I have an 05 F4i that is, other than an Akrapovic carbon slip-on, stock and in mint condition.  According to Sportbiketracktime.com, I can get this bike acceptable to use on the street with minimal effort...problem is if I drop it, OEM fairings aren't cheap...I could buy replacement fairings and change them out before the street day, but that is a pain, and that doesn't keep my tank from getting dented and a whole bunch of other potential damage.  Another option is to rent one of their bikes for $500 plus a $1000 deposit that I lose if I drop it.  Problem here, I am on a new bike that I am not familiar with, and the extra expense renting a motorcycle. 

To clear things up, I am a decent rider and have never dropped or been down on a motorcycle...I don't plan to either, but I know many excellent riders who have gone down on a street , so I know that it is always a possiblity.  I guess my biggest question, how big of a possiblity is it.

The only thing I've changed in your post is in red.  You said it yourself, the possibility is always there.  But do you go through this extra effort to worry about crashing on the street and worry about how you're going to fix your bike if you go down?  I suspect not.  And as high_revs said, if you fill those thoughts in your head, you'll only increase the likelihood of the self-fulfilling prophecy.

I do NOT suggest renting a bike and riding your own because you know how your bike behaves under all circumstances.  The last thing you want to do is ride a bike pushing your riding limits on an unknown bike.

Just go on your own bike and have FUN!  If you crash, so be it.  That's the attitude you likely have when you ride the streets, right?

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badfish '05 600RR Purple/Black

i didn't mean to scare him stang!!! 

but i do want to make sure people have realistic expecations when going to track. i'm seen too much newbie's make such mistake. and it's even sadder when they spent so much time prepping the bike like new oil changes, coolant out replaced with water wetter, waxing the body work for those pictures so it's all glossy (yep, i've seen that LOL), etc.

but the primary thing i caught in his post is a self-fulfilling prophecy, as abad said. every day, you risk something on the street. same goes on the track. i'm not sure if probabilities decrease because you remove cars, etc. but you add more riders and in closer proximity to you. so i'm not sure which is truly the lesser evil. (many trackday haters use that argument, though I can't see it completely flawed too). different set of facts, one not really that superior over the other.

see... abadfish is soo smart... i should've remember the technique he used on his post. tee hee

but i really hope OP goes out there and tries it. i was all s-h-i-e-t and giggles after my california superbike school, i did a trackday 2 weeks after that on my f4. and then about 4-5 more up in next 3-4 months.  2nd trackday, last session before lunch, i was scraping my right on a overly dominantly left turn track that is Thunderhill. by mid-afternoon, i fully dragging both knees. yeeehawwww... (still slow ass though)... i was doing this -GASP- on 208zr! hahaha.. i was so green.. i didn't know any better. but i wasn't alone in our pit group running 208zr.


ahhh... the good ol' days. when i can actually withstand thunderhill surface temps in jun/july of 120-130 F.

[edit] sorry, i'm wordy today. i didn't send enough emails out at work. so i take it out on forums. have an addiction to keep typing all day these days for some odd reason. it's theraphy cuz i can't still ride with a re-inflammed gout and an ankle still not even 85% healed at 5 weeks.

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"Leaders are like tea; put them in hot water to find out how strong they are." Anonymous

Every one seeems spot on, though you did miss one little detail on the "lagal aspects" high revs. The track does have a legal responsibility to ensure saftey as best as they can. while you may not be able to sue, you can bet that their legal responsablitity is on top of their list. criminal negligence, and insurance costs are top priority of any company. That was what I was refering to .

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CBR929-jardine race can, down 1, polished frame and swing arm,wheels polished, HELI bars, Sargent seat, Puig racing screen

hubbard2_a:

Every one seeems spot on, though you did miss one little detail on the "lagal aspects" high revs. The track does have a legal responsibility to ensure saftey as best as they can. while you may not be able to sue, you can bet that their legal responsablitity is on top of their list. criminal negligence, and insurance costs are top priority of any company. That was what I was refering to .

well, if you put "safety" that way, 100% with you! :)

safety typically is not defined that way when referring to safety on a trackday. :) and yes, insurance is a big cost for trackday organizers last I recall/heard.

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"Leaders are like tea; put them in hot water to find out how strong they are." Anonymous

WOW!  Got a lot of valuable info.  Thanks everyone...you all are awesome!  I will be doing my first track day this April on my OWN bike.  I have a feeling that I will be doing more of them after this first one, especially since they are currently building a new road course less than 30 minutes from my house.  Thanks again.

 

your so lucky, my closest tracks are 4hours south and 6 hrs north! thats a big reason that i havent done a track day yet.

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CBR929-jardine race can, down 1, polished frame and swing arm,wheels polished, HELI bars, Sargent seat, Puig racing screen

Yeah, to be a private member at this new track is $50,000 up front then annual dues of like $5000-$6000.  Too much for me to join, but hopefully organizers like STT will come in and host events there.  If not, I have about a 2.5 hour drive to my next nearest track--the one I will be doing in April.