CBRWorld.net

I'm looking for some help with tire pressure recommendations for Metzeler Sportec M1s on an F2.  This will be my second track day, so I will be riding a pretty slow pace.  Last time I went I had them in the usual track day recommended range of 29-31psi based on a tire rep at the track, but he didn't sell Metzelers so I don't know if he knew the best for this tire. 

I've been reading some recommendations online and it seems that the suggestions for the M1s are higher than the usual track range, like this review:
http://www.motorcycle.com/products/metzeler-sportec-m1-3576.htm
"...technicians on hand set the pressures at 32 psi front, 36 psi in the rear for the street portion of our ride"  "Once at the track, Metzeler's technicians insisted we venture out on the same tire pressures we had arrived with. And so we did, and we were impressed." "Metzeler's tire technicians tried to remedy this by dropping two pounds from the rear tire..."  So they started at 32 front and 36 rear, and then dropped the rear to 34. 

And then on this post from here:
http://cbrworld.net/forums/post/103531.aspx
He started at 32 front and 31 rear, but ended up at 34 front and 38 rear, although on a 600rr I believe.

So I'm thinking about starting at 32 front and 34 rear, unless anyone else can give me a better recommendation?

BSt.G:

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I've been reading some recommendations online and it seems that the suggestions for the M1s are higher than the usual track range, like this review:
http://www.motorcycle.com/products/metzeler-sportec-m1-3576.htm
"...technicians on hand set the pressures at 32 psi front, 36 psi in the rear for the street portion of our ride"  "Once at the track, Metzeler's technicians insisted we venture out on the same tire pressures we had arrived with. And so we did, and we were impressed." "Metzeler's tire technicians tried to remedy this by dropping two pounds from the rear tire..."  So they started at 32 front and 36 rear, and then dropped the rear to 34. 

sounds like a plan.  read my other post here for a lil more info http://cbrworld.net/forums/thread/289966.aspx.  i will tell u that at your "slow pace", u wont be getting the tires as hot as the test riders in the above article (slight assumption) and could run less pressure to get a bit more grip out of the tires.  however, until u actually start feeling the tires squirming around (and its actually happening, and not just all in your head), i wouldnt worry so much about tire pressure. 

BSt.G:

And then on this post from here:
http://cbrworld.net/forums/post/103531.aspx
He started at 32 front and 31 rear, but ended up at 34 front and 38 rear, although on a 600rr I believe.

this guy's methods are questionable.  ure much better off following the other article's advice.

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Naked 93' F2...... RIP -- 04/12/07
04' 600RR Black - currently stuck between track and street usage
- Brembo Master, Sato's, & Ohlins out back

Ok, that makes sense, if I'm not riding as hard as them, I won't be putting as much heat into the tires and the pressure won't increase as much.  So how much lower would you recommend I start them at?  31f and 33r?  30f and 32r?

Please introduce yourself in the New Members section.

FWIW, when I ran Sportecs at the track, I was running between 30 and 32.  They got plenty warm at those pressures.

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badfish '05 600RR Purple/Black

Thanks, I think I'll start with 30f and 32r and then check them after the sessions to see if they are getting hot enough.

BSt.G:

Thanks, I think I'll start with 30f and 32r and then check them after the sessions to see if they are getting hot enough.

a few things to consider:

- u wont have the tires fully up to temp after the first session.  wait til after the 2nd or the 3rd.  the outer rubber may be good by the end of the 1st, but not carcus or air temp.
- track temp rises throughout the day which will affect the tire temp
- everytime u check the air of the tires, ull lose 1/4 to 1/2lb of air depending on ure gauge and such.  so really, theres no need to check the pressure after every session. 
- if u put around on the final lap, your hot pressures will be a little bit reduced, maybe 1-2psi. 
- make sure u check the air with an accurate gauge if u want to run exactly 30/32.  a lot of cheap gauges can be off by as much as 5psi out of the box.  the tire vendor at the trackday should have a good gauge that u can compare yours too, just dont drop it . 

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Naked 93' F2...... RIP -- 04/12/07
04' 600RR Black - currently stuck between track and street usage
- Brembo Master, Sato's, & Ohlins out back

Thanks again for the tips, I'll wait a few sessions and check it, and unless they seem way off, then I'll just leave them.  I go to the track with a big group from a local dealership and they bring down a bunch of tools so I think they have a decent gauge, but you're right that I can also bug one of the vendors for one too.

Experiment.

Like the article said, the metzlers like to be a little higher htan most other tires.  Start there, and see what feels best.

the expensive (but right) way to do this is to buy tire warmers, measure hot pressure, and just keep the tires warm all day, rather than cycling them too many times.

The best track tire I have found in acceptable sizes for an F2 is either the Michelin Pilot Power, or the Pirelli Dragon Supercorsa.

the supercorsas are actually more aggressive tires, but they have no tread near the edge, so in the rain, you REALLY have to be careful.  Pilot Powers aren't quite as grippy, but they are 'good' tires.

I am hoping and praying for the day the Diablo Corsa III is available in a 160/60...  those things grip like crazy and wear like iron.

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'93 CBR F2 track slave
'97 EX-500 daily ride/makes the F2 feel faster than it is)

"track riding makes heroin addiction look like a mild craving for something salty."

The tire rep at the track suggested going 32psi front and rear, and so I started there and they worked great all day and didn't blue as much as last time, but again that's at my slow pace.  I don't think I'm ready for tire warmers at this point, maybe in a few years

The Pirelli rep actually gave me a Dragon Supercorsa rear take-off that had plenty of life in it for my pace, so I just need to find a front and I'll have my next set of tires ready to go.

Glad to hear it!  I didn't mean to come across like I was telling you "go buy tire warmers."  I don't have a set yet, and probably won't for another couple years...

That's what's nice about the DOT approved 'track day' tires - they anticipate more heat-cycling, because they're still designed for some street use (in theory).

From one F2 rider to another, what is your suspension setup?  I just got this bike last month, and i'm really struggling with the craptacular stock forks.  Are you getting a ton of dive?

I'll be trying thicker oil next time out, and crossing my fingers.  Otherwise, there may be an F3 fork conversion happening over the winter (unless it costs too much - then i'll just suck it up adn deal with it).

MAKE NOTE OF YOUR TIRE PRESSURES.   keeping track of what works has saved me a lot of grief this season.

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'93 CBR F2 track slave
'97 EX-500 daily ride/makes the F2 feel faster than it is)

"track riding makes heroin addiction look like a mild craving for something salty."

My original fork seals were leaking once I got it running again (it sat for a couple years), so I picked up a set of the late F2 forks ('94 I believe) that are similar to, if not identical to, the F3 forks.  So I have those combined with an F3 shock, and it seems to perform ok for me at my slow pace.  I had it setup by our local suspension guru at the track, and he said that for my weight (~200) they are a bit soft but he was able to set them as close as he could for now. 

rk97:

Glad to hear it!  I didn't mean to come across like I was telling you "go buy tire warmers."  I don't have a set yet, and probably won't for another couple years...

That's what's nice about the DOT approved 'track day' tires - they anticipate more heat-cycling, because they're still designed for some street use (in theory).

....

im not sure if ure talking about the same tires im thinking of, but DOT 'track day' tires, more commonly refered to as DOT race tires are not really designed for street use.  most of them lack the silica compounds that prevent tires from getting hard after excessive heat cycling and are usually way too soft to see any real mileage.  they also are designed for much higher operating temperatures than standard high performance tires.  the tires im talkin about are Michelin Power Races, Pirelli Supercorsas, Dunlop D209GPs, and Metzeler Racetecs.

if ure just referring to the standard... Michelin PP, Metzeler M3, Pirelli Corsa III, etc... ya tire warmers are of no use.  hell, ive heard from plenty of racers that dont even run warmers on real race rubber.  however, almost any track rider will eventually find the limit of these tires even on an outdated motorcycle.   ull be very happy to 'upgrade' to DOT race rubber when that day comes. 

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Naked 93' F2...... RIP -- 04/12/07
04' 600RR Black - currently stuck between track and street usage
- Brembo Master, Sato's, & Ohlins out back